How To Have Type 2 Fun with Lauren Oliveri at The Stinking Rose.

Lauren — an avid nature adventurer and programmer residing in Brooklyn, New York — talks Type 2 Fun from difficult trips hiking through South America to cross country treks and the scourge of bed bugs plaguing fabrics over garlic infused Italian at the Stinking Rose in San Francisco.

[Pulls out camera]

Lauren: Do you do this at the beginning or the end?

Tanner: Anytime.

Lauren: Well, so you only have the garlic vignette in front of us.

Tanner: Yes. But this is so cool. It’s a little film point and shoot camera.

Lauren: So cute.

Tanner: I have like 16 more frames to burn from that one.

I know. I really like these. Okay.

Lauren: Well, the topic I had in mind was just like the concept of Type 2 Fun Have we talked about Type 2 Fun yet?

Tanner: I have not.

Lauren: Oh, great. Perfect.

Tanner: Fill me in. Like, what is it? I have so many questions.

Lauren: So, I don’t think this is a concept that like my friends and I originated. I think that there’s like literally no articles written about it. So, I don’t know how I first came upon it. But Type 1 fun is while you’re doing the activity, you’re having fun. And then afterwards, you’re like, “That was fun.” And I have good memories. Type 2 fun is you’re not having fun during it. But afterwards, like upon reflection, you’re like, “That was so fun.”

Tanner: Okay.

Lauren: And many of my best – and also – okay, and then Type 2 fun, which we – my friends and I have made up, is it’s not fun while doing it, and it’s not fun thinking about it. Type 4 fun is it’s enjoyable during it, and it’s not fun when you reflect on it after. To me, that’s just as if most of your nights drinking. Not yours, but one’s night. But I really live and love – live, laugh, and love the Type 2. It’s the best. And I have numerous examples – well, I have at least two.

Host: Would you like some bread?

Tanner: Yes, right here.

Host: Right there?

Lauren: Thank you.

Tanner: Thank you.

Lauren: That’s what I want to talk about.

Tanner: Type 2 fun.

Lauren: Yeah.

Tanner: Okay. I feel like – I’m trying to think of like what experience have been Type 2 fun. I feel like I have quite a few of those.

Lauren: Yes.

Tanner: I feel like most trips I’ve been on – and this is such a hot take for me because I fucking love traveling – the most trips I’ve been on have been Type 2 fun, where I’m going through it, and half the time I’m wondering, “Why the fuck am I doing this? This sucks. I hate everything.” And then I get home and it’s “That was so much fun. I can’t wait to tell everyone.”

Lauren: Yes. Oh, thank you.

Tanner: Okay, I feel like that’s an appropriate amount of garlic. I was expecting this thing like the size of my head. I don’t know why.

Lauren: It smells really good. I don’t know what to expect either, but this is great. I can’t wait to eat it.

Tanner: Yeah, it feels like an appropriate amount of garlic. I’ll take a photo of it.

Lauren: Okay, go.

Tanner: Oh, God. Yeah. Okay, this is giving me – wow, this is giving me a new genre to find everything I’ve ever done that’s Type 2.

Lauren: Oh, yeah. The other – so there’s the – so a lot of my Type 2 fun are just generally the baseline versions was just any hike.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: And you're thinking, “Oh, shit, there's an elevation gain.” But then at the end, you're like, “That was awesome. I accomplished so much.” The other is when things just go horribly wrong, and then you laugh about it after, and I have many examples of that. Yeah, or spontaneity, just things that were unplanned. Happy they went well. Could have gone bad. But -

Tanner: What do you think was your penultimate Type 2 fun event so far?

Lauren: I think the main example I was going to talk about was my entire – yes, good so far.

Tanner: Thank you.

Lauren: My entire trip to Argentina in early 2022. Basically everything went horribly wrong. Like when it arrives. And then at the end – but it ended up being like one of the more memorable trips I’ve taken recently.

Tanner: Nice.

So, okay, let’s see. Argentina. Number one, packing was truly a nightmare. I have a photo of receiving a package of approximately 50,000 REI drive-through packages. I have a shot for my friends too. But also I am very grateful that they did a lot of planning. I think I joined the trip last minute and they had done all this planning, which is great. You need to do a lot of planning when you arrive in Argentina and you want to do a hike. So we had planned to arrive in Argentina.

Tanner: This is actually really fucking good.

Lauren: You’re into it?

Tanner: Oh yeah.

Lauren: Nice. I’m glad. I’m glad that you are – you don’t hate garlic. And I was like I just took you to a – well that could have been a type two fun. The time that Tanner: got to a garlic place.

Tanner: Yeah, Tanner: discovered a new love for garlic that he never had until now.

Lauren: And that you’re not a vampire.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: Okay, so we were going to – our plan was get there, do a four-day backpacking trip hike. And then do a glacier trek and then I think we had one other thing to do at the end. But we arrived and this was the kind of trek where you have to go and check in with the park rangers to be like look for my body in four days if I don’t turn up. Truly sign the whatever.

Tanner: Nice.

Lauren: And we get there and they’re just like no you can’t. And something I did not realize about Patagonia is that it’s one of the windiest places in the world. Car doors blowing off cars windy.

Tanner: Jesus.

Lauren: And so they have all these weather patterns where you just see the red wind, and you have to go over mountain passes where we could literally be blown off the mountain. So the mountain rangers kindly advised us not to proceed when we were planning on doing it, given that the weather was highly unpredictable. And so there we were, huddled as a group. It was me and three friends, trying to solve this problem because we had planned everything. Booked hostels, made accommodations, arranged glacier treks that we had to completely cancel. We needed buffer days in our plan which we didn't have. So the end result was that we had to cancel our flight home and rebook it.

Tanner: Damn.

Lauren: And we had 2G Wi-Fi. It was a fucking disaster.

Tanner: I’d rather have no Wi-Fi then.

Lauren: Yeah so we did that. But the main part.

Host: Were you ready to order?

Lauren: Oh Andre I think I need another minute.

Host: Okay.

Lauren: Yeah thank you. I should actually decide. I should decide before I get into the worst part about this story.

Tanner: What a cliff hanger

Lauren: Do you want your own? Do you want your own entree? Do you want to do sharing things? Do you want pasta? Do you want pizza?

Tanner: Ooh I’m down to just play the pasta and the pizza.

Lauren: That sounds great. Let’s do that.

Tanner: I think honestly any of the pasta is good.

Lauren: Okay what do I want? I think I want. Is there anything you don’t like?

Tanner: Um let’s see. Where are the pizzas?

Lauren: Do you like seafood? Oh stinking pizzas are stinking stupid pizzas.

Tanner: I mean okay so I’m going to get the Fettuccine. I mean all of it looks good. The seafood platters. The pasta really looks good. The steak’s good. The pasta pasta, the fettuccine looks good. The pizzas. Okay. All of them are good but my vote is for the Muffaletta.

Lauren: Do it. Done.

Tanner: Done.

Lauren: Do you want to do, okay that’s kind of like a, do you want to do a meaty pasta or a vegetarian pasta?

Tanner: I’m fine with the Fettuccine.

Lauren: My vote is either the ravioli or the bolognese.

Tanner: Let’s do… the Bolognese.

Lauren: Okay.

Tanner: That sounds funnier. Side note, I had a lunch party at my place a couple weeks ago that was just Muffaletta sandwiches. And they’re so fucking good. The Muffaletta is this really incredible Sicilian type sandwich that originated in New Orleans. And these Sicilian dudes got trapped in New Orleans while they were doing shipping and whatnot. Their ship got stuck there and they were stranded. So I guess we’ll just stay here forever and we’ll open our own deli and we’ll create the Muffaletta sandwich. And there’s a spot that opened in San Francisco a few months ago that only sells Muffaletta sandwiches. And they’re incredibly good.

Lauren: I’m trying to think if I’ve ever had one. I honestly don’t think I have. I’m just going to try it. Also… what was I going to say? I don’t want to get canceled on saying this but happy Italian Heritage Day. Have you seen that episode of the Sopranos? About Columbus Day?

Tanner: I have not.

Lauren: Holy crap. It’s so effed up. Oh my god. It’s really good though. It’s really good though.

Tanner: Okay, so you’ve been watching The Sopranos. I’ve been watching The Sopranos by way of YouTube shorts.

Lauren: That’s an interesting media to watch it through. Because it’s going out. It not only goes out of order but only gives you the one minute version at a time. Have you seen the full Sopranos?

Tanner: No. But I’ve seen enough to fully understand what’s happening.

Lauren: Oh yeah.

Tanner: And I have thoughts about it.

Lauren: Well I’m not done with it yet. I’m in season six which is starting off real fast.

Tanner: I have no idea what season six is.

Lauren: Oh my god. It’s the last season.

Tanner: Okay.

Lauren: Do you want me to tell you anything about it? You should watch it. You should watch The Sopranos.

Tanner: Fill me in.

Lauren: Want me to fill you in?

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: Really?

Tanner: You can fill me in.

Lauren: I mean it’s going to have spoilers. Cut the spoilers out.

Tanner: It’s out of order. You can’t spoil it.

Lauren: Alright well I got the post Tanner: . Cut this out if you want.

Tanner: [laughter]

Lauren: I mean it just all says it just starts out like there’s a lot going on. Carmela and Tony’s relationship’s kind of been on the rocks since season five. It starts out. Tony just gets shot and put in the hospital and he’s in a coma for the first few episodes and it’s incredible. Any Sopranos dream sequence is incredible. His coma dream sequence is insane and amazing. And then just the characters. And then there’s another character who basically is forced out of the closet. And I don’t know how that ends yet because I’m still in the middle of season six. And it’s like it’s so good. It’s so good.

Tanner: It’s Vito right?

Lauren: Yeah you know. But I don’t know how it ends yet. But he’s escaped to New Hampshire last I saw. And he’s trying to start a new life and I’m just like I don’t think it’s going to go good for him. I’ve seen season one Tony found a random guy in New Hampshire. Season one found a random guy in New Hampshire who was hiding from the mob and fucking strangled him with his shoelace. So I’m not hopeful for Vito right now. But I’d love for him to live his best life in New Hampshire.

Tanner: I’m kind of going to explore this alternate reality where there’s a timeline where Vito is just living. What you said living his best life in New Hampshire. I want the spinoff. Vito in New Hampshire.

Lauren: Yeah it’s not going to happen. It’s not going to happen for him in this reality that I’m in right now.

Tanner: Also if you’re trying to escape the mob in New Jersey I feel like I would go further away. At least one time zone.

Lauren: I would agree. Definitely change time zones.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: I think in his defense he might have had family there.

Tanner: Okay. I would probably avoid family because they would know to go for your family.

Lauren: I know. And they’re trying. They’re trying right now. But yeah. That’s Sopranos season 6. I’m already just like…

Tanner: It's all good. I love the coma sequences and the flashback type sequences. They're so bizarre and it takes a while to catch on. Then you realize, "Wait a second. This is a dream sequence." It feels very much like something from David Lynch.

Yes, very much. I don’t know which season. It might be season 2 or 1. It’s the one where he’s on the boardwalk and a fish talks to him, and it's his friend posting to tell him that he’s a rat. Incredible. But you hear the boardwalk creaking and that’s your hint. If there's any creaking in an episode, even if they’re not on the boardwalk, you're just thinking uh oh. Something bad is going to happen. Or even the dream sequence of Dr. Melfi had a dream sequence. Where she imagines a Rottweiler which symbolizes Tony.

Tanner: So good.

Lauren: Anyway, cliffhanger, you know. So we rebook everything. And so we end up doing the shorter day hikes in the beginning to save time until we could do the longer four-day hike. And I think it was either the day or the day after we had to rebook everything. We’re about to do a glacier hike, which is a shittier glacier hike to be fair. One of the girls I’m with, we're kind of waking up. We’re in a hostel. I hear her say some weird words, "exoskeletons" and "blood." And I was thinking what is happening? And she explains that she woke up to seeing a bug walk away from her in the bed. Whoa. And we’re, oh you definitely got bit by a bug for sure. And then we’re saying, oh yeah your sheet has some weird old blood stains on it.

Tanner: Oh my god.

Lauren: Already this trip is just really not going to plan.

Tanner: Oh sorry. Thank you.

Host: Are you ready to order?

Lauren: Hello. Yes I think we’re ready to order. We’re going to do the Bolognese Pasta.

Tanner: And the Muffaletta Pizza.

Lauren: Oh thank you.

Tanner: Thank you.

Host: The Bolognese and the Muffaletta.

Lauren: Yes. Thank you. I know so topical right with all the Paris having bed bugs out the wazoo. They’re about to have a bed bug super spreader. Have you heard about this?

Tanner: I have not.

Lauren: Oh my god dude Paris is… it’s not a good situation right now. There’s so many bed bugs that they have right now.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: I think it’s 10 percent of households have bed bugs. And a lot of them are immune to pesticides.

Tanner: That’s so fucked up.

Lauren: And they found them at the airport.

Tanner: Oh no.

Lauren: So we’re all fucked. Except for me because of this trip experience I know a lot about bed bugs.

Tanner: At the airport!?

Lauren: Yeah they’re at the airport. It’s just like COVID. It’s like COVID is about to happen again.

Tanner: Oh my god. Dude if there’s a shutdown because of bed bugs I’ll be so pissed.

Lauren: I think in 2015 I remember just going to work one day in New York City and someone’s like don’t take the train it has bed bugs. And I was like how’s that possible it’s plastic. Also how did bed bugs evolve? Were they like when did when did that?

Tanner: That’s a recent thing?

Lauren: Where did they live? In hay?

Tanner: It’s just… okay I’ve invented the first mattress and a bug appears and found it. This is my calling. Right now right here.

Lauren: I’m going to make this my entire personality.

Tanner: There’s some piece of furniture we have yet to invent and there’s a bug that’s just eagerly awaiting for its invention.

Lauren: Fuck that. I hate those things.

Tanner: Okay. Plot twist just would have a super bed bug. Found a time machine. Came back in time. Invented the bed and then just reproduced. “Go forth now I can populate the world with beds and bugs.” I think you’re on something

Lauren: Oh my god. I’m crying.

Tanner: Also bed bugs on the train - how is that a thing because it’s metal and plastic. Were they just chilling, smoking, sitting, waiting for people to sit on them? They’re just screaming fuck I’ve gone like two minutes without seeing some cloth. I need to see some cloth. Just give me some linen. Anything. Just some cotton. The clothiest people.”

Lauren: I mean there’s always someone on the train that can they latch onto. Horrible right?

Tanner: I had a similar thought once. I was trying to go to Palm Springs and a huge wildfire broke out in the mountains surrounding it. My hotel reservation was canceled. I called and asked if everything was okay, given the situation. They confirmed but mentioned they were evacuating because the mountain was on fire. For a good 10 seconds, I just sat there thinking that the mountain is solid rock. There seems to be no vegetation there. How are the rocks on fire?

Lauren: This is actually the same thing. This is a great analogy.

Tanner: I want to understand if a part of the mountain is on fire. Like maybe a tree but she said the whole mountain is on fire. All the rock is burning.

Lauren: A flammable rock?. I’m so confused Sounds like the same thing.

Tanner: Bed bugs in the hostel. So you had all the logistics have been totally screwed over and then you’re finally in this hostel and there’s bed bugs. Not just any bed bugs but the final boss of bed bugs.

Lauren: Hostel bugs. I mean I don’t know if these ones are immune but the fact that they existed there was a whole thing. So we were going to do this day trip and we were just trying to get our stuff together. And then we were saying we don’t want to leave, we’re going to go on this glacier track so we're going to talk to the hostel and tell them they gotta fix this. But we had all these plans still, so anyway we did the glacier track and we were laughing the whole time because we were thinking if there were any on us. We were in such a situation where we were really climbing rock on the side, doing something called Via Ferrata, which is when you get a carabiner and you’re hooked into the wall. These bed bugs don’t stand a chance against the Patagonia winds. They’re just being blown off so we’re trying to laugh about it and what an absolute mess of a situation we’re in. And then that night it was New Year’s and I think we oh yeah and we were thinking we needed to just put all our stuff, our camping stuff, everything, our sleeping bags, we needed to incinerate them without ruining them to try to ensure that we killed anything. And because it was New Year’s we were running around New Year’s and nothing was open so we had to just I don’t even know what we did. I think we stayed in a different room and we were filthy, people are celebrating New Year’s all around us, we’re dirty because I think we had quarantine our stuff while watching everyone celebrate the new year. We were just hanging out at a bar. So then we split next day we were able to find a laundromat tried it we kept being told no this is nice camping gear you don’t want to ruin it. We were thinking we didn’t want to alarm the man we were just saying mucho caldo por favor. Por favor and he’s like okay did that. Anyway. We — long story short we did what we had to do. Yeah we did the hike. We didn’t encounter any bed bugs later in the hike and it was incredible it was one of the best hikes in my life and also the hike was really tough. There was a part where I just slid down a rock at one point just a 45 degree angle and just sent it down I was I don’t whatever I made a wrong turn. Whatever it’s a really cool hike.

Tanner: Was it like a drop off the side of the cliff or just a drop where you can correct yourself.

Lauren: It wasn’t a cliff, I was able to correct myself. It was a bit of a drop, though. I really slid on my rear. And it was because it was a section that was straight up — I don’t want to say 45-degree descent, but a descent that was rapidly eroding. And there were not many things to hold on to, so it was sandy and sliding. But the final thing is that we were finally leaving Argentina one by one, and this was during COVID. So to get into the country, we had to do a lot of research on how to get in, and then I believe we had to do this remote testing. I think I was one of the first to leave; we all kind of left in order.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: I think my friend Tammy left. I left. More left. Sarah is about to leave. She is positive for COVID.

Tanner: Oh no.

Lauren: Argentina’s final fuck you to her it’s just that she had to like stay in quarantine for like a week. And somehow we all escaped and then Tammy tested positive but me and Maura did not. And I returned home.

Tanner: Did she — so she’s in quarantine in Argentina. Is she in a different place without the bed bags?

Lauren: Yes.

Tanner: Okay.

Lauren: Yes. The other amazing thing. Okay. So she luckily worked out knew a friend coming to Buenos Aires and brought her laptop with her from DC. So she was able to work from Buenos Aires like being quarantined. Something I learned though is that. So I was really freaked out with the bed bugs though. So I come home and I had purchased before I arrived a oven.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: And I had Ivan just ramp that shit up. Turn the oven on. I’m about to come home, strip naked in our hallway put it all in a bag and just incinerate my shit.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: And we did that and we are totally fine. And then our other friends hired a dog which apparently there’s the dogs are trained to sniff them. They have them sniff their stuff and still incinerated it and they’re fine. So.

Tanner: Nice. There’s probably was one last bed bug that hitch hiked with you all the way. They must have thought this is so much fun, having a total blast and then suddenly, it's getting really warm… just incinerates instantly. It must have thought, I’m jet setting, I’m going to see the sites, really start to live and then, oh I’m dead. So, bed bugs, COVID everything, the wind. That sounds like a nightmare.

Lauren: Also. But yeah. But one of my favorite hikes ever. So do you have any type two fun stories now that you’ve heard mine. Well we literally, we talk about this and we bring it up like we have inside jokes to all the parts of it. It’s a memorable trip.

Tanner: OK. I think I have two different set of genres because I have type two events that happen to me. But I’m much more… I don’t want to say adapt to it but I stopped caring at a certain point. And then I’ve type two events that happen with friends and I’m just thinking what the actual fuck.

Lauren: OK. Yeah.

Tanner: Like to give an example the first one this recent trip I did over the summer going around the country on Amtrak. There was such a huge curve ball in the last three days of the trip where it ruined the last 3.000 miles I had to do. And I had to figure out - OK I guess I’m changing like everything now.

Lauren: Is this bus thing.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: Oh my God. You do like to have type two fun.

Tanner: I do.

Lauren: You like your punishment on these trains.

Tanner: Absolutely. That's the thing, I find what happens to me. But if it's in a group setting, I completely change. I'm going to be very strict, almost military-like. There's no room for me to mess up. I take things very seriously while keeping it fun. So that's why this one is still imprinted in my brain. OK. So if I say this, everyone's going to roll their eyes. I can't stop talking about going to Joshua Tree or Palm Springs. I'm always telling everyone they should go to Palm Springs. Yes.

Lauren: Thank you.

Tanner: I’m just going to move this around.

Lauren: Oh yeah. Perfect. Thank you so much.

Host: Would you like some Parmesan?

Lauren: Yeah why not.

Tanner: Yeah let’s do it. Let’s do a little bit.

Lauren: Thank you.

Tanner: Thank you.

Host: Here’s the rest

Tanner: Let’s put that there. So yeah, I am a huge fan of going to Joshua Tree and Palm Springs doing the whole desert exploration thing. So, late 2018 or maybe kind of mid 2018. I keep telling my friends at the time that they should do a trip to Joshua Tree. It's so cool. And lets go when it’s really cold in San Francisco. Because it’ll be 75 and sunny down there. It’ll be perfect. And for a good two years, people are just agreeing to the group trip just so I would stop talking about it. So, at the time it’s my friends Lauren, Chris, Jack, Ala, and Marin. So about six of us. So we make a plan. Trying to remember the plan? So we make a plan to go to Joshua Tree and camp out there. So it’s all of us camping and it’s Jack and Ala’s first time camping out there. So we go in two separate parties. So it’s Jack, Ala, and myself. We fly to Palm Springs, spend the day there and then we go to Joshua Tree in the evening. Set up camp and the next day or overnight, Lauren, Chris, and Marin will be driving in from L.A. So they’re going to rendezvous there and they come out to Joshua Tree which is a two-hour drive. And then we’ll spend I think two days all together in the park and we’ll head home. So I’m thinking this is going to be so much fun. I’m going to lead everything. I know the park. Lauren’s really great at camping so we’ll kind of work together. She’ll plan the camping stuff. I’ll just be the driver. I’m looking forward to it. And this is February, late February 2019. And we’re going for Ala’s birthday and I’m thinking hey, before the group stuff starts, I’ll go to Palm Springs ahead of time. Spend three days there for some Tanner Time and it’ll be fantastic. So I fly into Palm Springs and as soon as we get there it’s just flying through a storm cloud. And it’s what the heck is going on? Because storm clouds can happen out in the desert. But that specific part of the desert, it’s a big deal if there’s a storm cloud because one, you have the mountains that block everything. And two, if it rains it floods instantly. Like game over. Good luck to everyone. So I’m flying into Palm Springs and it’s chaotic turbulence. Get there and it’s pouring rain the whole day. So okay this day’s a wash. Whatever. I have two more days. I check the weather because I suspect something’s up. I check the weather. It’s not just rain for that day. It’s rain for the next day, the following day, and then snow in Joshua Tree.

Lauren: I literally, as you’re talking about this, I remember I had a snow day in Joshua Tree moment too.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: Have you talked about this? It’s crazy.

Tanner: Yeah. So my whole sales pitch to this group was like…

Lauren: That it was 78 degrees.

Tanner: Yeah. So this is happening and I get there and I’m thinking, maybe it’ll clear up. Some act of God will clear up. Everything else looks clear after that. So let me just focus on disconnecting and enjoying my time in Palm Springs. The night before everyone shows up, I turn my phone on. I see the group chat. They’re saying, “Hey, we’re looking at the weather. Is everything okay?” I respond, “Heeeeeeeeyyyyy everyone.” You might want to pack some warmer clothing and everyone in the group chat just loses it. They’re saying, “Dude, your whole sales pitch was it’s going to be warm and sunny. It’s colder there than San Francisco. It’s warm and sunny here. What the heck are we doing?” I’m like, “Look, if you turn back now, I totally will not blame you. It’s totally fine.” So the next day, Jack and Ala fly in. We spend the day in Palm Springs. And then we go out to Joshua Tree and thankfully the snow has cleared up at this point. There’s still some, but there’s no — it’s not actively snowing. So we get to Cottonwood Campground and overnight it unexpectedly got much colder than it should have. It dipped down to the 20s and we were not prepared for it at all. Jack and Ala...

Lauren Oliveri: You were camping.

Tanner: We were camping and this is their first time camping too. So they’re they woke up just freezing.

Lauren Oliveri: You almost killed your friends.

Tanner: Yes. Perhaps. That, that. Yes. Your words, not mine. So that happened and then it gets worse from here on out. So I wake up because at this point, Lauren, Chris and Marin should be here already. And sometime throughout the night, I thought I heard Chris’s voice and I thought, “Oh, they must’ve gotten here. Now I can fall back to sleep.” So I step out of the tent. I don’t see them there. And I see Jack and Ala just freezing. I thought, “What’s going on?” I needed to figure out one, why are my friends cold? Two, where are my other friends? Because they also have all our other supplies for the rest of the trip. So we’re also in the park and there’s no cell service. So I have to drive outside the park for half an hour. I get cell service. I’m frantically calling Lauren, frantically calling Chris, frantically calling Marin. And after about an hour, they finally call and they say, “Hey, we got stuck up in the mountains coming down to LA because of snow. Our car broke down and we’re at Marin’s trying to figure out what to do.”

Lauren Oliveri: Oh God. So they never actually made it.

Tanner: They did make it.

Lauren Oliveri: Wait, wait, wait.

Tanner: They got a rental.

Lauren Oliveri: Oh, okay. Okay. So Lauren’s… Wait, so when you heard the voice at night, you were imagining it?

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren Oliveri: Okay.

Tanner: Yeah. They never showed up.

Lauren Oliveri: Okay, okay.

Tanner: So mind you, they’re in LA. They’re two hours west from here. Two and a half hours west at this point. So they’re, “Hey, we’re going to get a rental and we’ll come out and we’ll meet you at the camp.” I was, “Okay, we need to figure out a time and place we’ll be there because we don’t have cell signal.” So we spend the day going through the park to get into town to get more supplies, blankets, whatnot. And then for whatever reason, the whole town was sold out of firewood. So you have to get this terrible gift shop firewood, which one, you should never do. Because it does not light on fire at all. So we’re there late at night and we’re, “Where on earth is everyone?” Because they said they’d be here at 2 p.m. It’s 8 p.m. And we’re, “If we want to get a hold of them, we have to drive outside the park.” So I did that again. And, “Hey, we’re literally on our way. We’re stuck in traffic.” And then two hours later, they show up. With all our supplies, everything. And mind you, we spent the whole day just going around the park. It’s freezing cold. Jack and Ala were, “We hate this. We hate you. We hate everything.” I was, “Totally fine. I get it. I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry.” And then just that dinner we had at night, this really bad campfire food. We’re all just sitting there just freezing, absolutely frigid. We’re telling ourselves “This feels like a good meal. This feels like a good meal.” And I think that kind of summed it up.

The next day it gets even worse though. This is our leaving day. So the plan was Jack and Ala would fly back. I would hitch a ride with Lauren and Chris to go back up to San Francisco. Marin would go back to L.A. And Chris says “Oh, Lauren’s car is destroyed. Her car is basically totaled. Her engine just does not work anymore.” So to get from Palm Springs to San Francisco, it’s a seven-hour drive with no traffic and we don’t stop. So already it’s, we have to go back to L.A., figure out Lauren’s car, and then find out that doesn’t work, get another rental, go back up to San Francisco, hit a ton of traffic. So it’s: we wake up at 8 a.m. and we get back at 10 p.m. At that point I’m, “Okay, you also don’t have a car. I have the rental. You can have the rental while you figure out your car. I’ll just extend it. You can return it.” And that trip still gets brought up. It’s, “Hey, remember that time you almost killed us in Joshua Tree in that snowstorm? That was a once in a 30-year snowstorm that happened to hit the exact time we’re there?” Literally the day we left it went back to 85. And the day before I went there it was 85. It was just those specific days, Mother Nature’s, “Fuck you. Fuck your friends. Fuck you again specifically.”

Lauren: What is it a… Do your friends regret going?

Tanner: I think Jack and Ala might in a joking way, but I don’t think anyone regrets going.

Lauren: Yeah, you made memories.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: That’s a good thing too. I’ve been thinking a lot about how… This is a conversation my roommate and I have been having. Tammy, you met her. We were talking yesterday about how do you make memories. How do you proceed… Yeah, how there’s like that theory that time goes faster as you get older.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: I think that’s been debunked and the reality is that you just…

Tanner: This is an easy way to make a memory. Pasta

Lauren: Oh wait, also… Oh! The onions. Or the garlic! You’ve been thinking about onion too much at work.

Tanner: Oh my… Oh no! I hate this reference. But yeah. Yeah.

Lauren: Anyway, garlic. Our onion.

Tanner: Alright. One, two, three.

Lauren: Nice. Here we go. I’m gonna eat this.

Tanner: Go for it.

Lauren: Do you want to eat? Or garlic?

Tanner: Okay.

Lauren: But… what were you saying?

Tanner: Making memories.

Lauren: Taking photos and making memories. Yeah, photos legitimately help. Journaling legitimately helps.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: But when things that don’t go quite into plan, you’re thinking, “My mind will take a snapshot of it.”

Tanner: Oh yeah.

Lauren: For better or for worse. And what else? Um… spontaneity.

Tanner: Mm-hmm.

Lauren: But, if you fall into a routine too much, you just… You don’t. Also being bored. We’re not bored enough. We’re always looking at our phones.

Tanner: Yeah. There’s…

Lauren: Yeah.

Tanner: There’s this really nice concept of just, not having anything planned. And not feeling bad about not having anything planned.

Lauren: Yep.

Tanner: And then just kind of lounging around. Letting your mind kind of wander a bit.

Lauren: Yeah.

Tanner: I’ve been doing that a lot more recently where I’m “We I’ll have these very specific moments throughout the day blocked out.” Where you can’t talk to me. It’s illegal to text me. You can’t speak to me. That I might be off of my own little space.

Lauren: Do you explicitly tell people that?

Tanner: No.

Lauren: Oh, okay. Good.

Tanner: So it’s a winning combo right there.

Lauren: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re like, “Fuck.”

Tanner: No, no, no.

Lauren: Well, I do notice that because Apple has that feature where I know when your notifications are turned off, that’s great.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: Respond to me when you’re appropriately ready. Because I always make the mistake of checking my phone when I’m not ready.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren: And then being like, “Oh shit, I have to mark this as as read because I’m not ready to respond to this?” That’s really good.

Tanner: Oh yeah. I’m probably going to dig in this Muffaletta pizza

Lauren: Hell yeah.

How is it? Delicious.

Oh, really good. Thank you.

Tanner: I found that the reason I don’t tell people the “don’t contact me” thing is… So two reasons. I feel that I’m a stream of consciousness 95% of the time. So when I stop, people think, “Oh, this feels kind of nice. Tanner is not spamming my notifications.” So it kind of works out. The other side of it is that, anytime I’ve explicitly said to someone, “I will not be here, do not text me, do not call me, do not email me, don’t send a carrier pigeon.” People respond, “Okay, cool.”

Lauren Oliveri: So here’s, I’m talking to you now?

Tanner: Yeah. Yeah. And I’m, okay about this…

Lauren Oliveri: I know what you’re talking about.

Tanner: Yeah. So I found it was “Hey, I’m not here.” You can figure it out your own. If you don’t have access to Tanner for 20 minutes, it’s not that much of a problem, first of all. But you’ve got a problem, not me.

Lauren Oliveri: Yeah, intentionally, what do you like to do during your me time?

Tanner: It changes a lot. I’ve been finding lately just being able to not talk and just space out because I find the day-to-day… I do genuinely enjoy it, so as not to complain, but it’s that slight little battery charge where I’m “Okay, let me add another 3 or 4% and then by the time I get home, I won’t be empty.”

Lauren: Dude, literally me. Me and Cancun especially. I just have to go back to my room and stare at a blank wall. Just be “I’m gonna socialize with my coworkers again.” Oh, talk about the Type 2 fun. Not the whole trip, but the boat ride. I don’t know if we can talk about this.

Tanner: We can, yeah, if you want to.

Lauren: Okay, okay. The boat ride that had shitty weather, cold, disgusting alcohol… Disgusting alcohol. Bad food. The toilet situation, don’t even get me started. I have such a good memory of that boat ride, specifically the moment when they let us go in the water and I’m thinking, “All of your peeing right now.” I know it. I’m gonna hear it on tape. I peed in the water and my coworker’s two feet away from me.

Tanner: “Wow, the water’s warm.”

Lauren: That Cancun Mexican Gulf water stream.

Tanner: Wow, that global warming, how cool!

Lauren: That bar was so terrible, but it was so amazing to me.

Tanner: So speaking of Joshua Tree, I was not on that trip because I was at Joshua Tree on a makeup trip with those same friends.

Lauren: Aww. What’s more memorable?

Tanner: That was actually a really memorable trip.

Lauren: What made it memorable?

Tanner: So the first trip was in 2019. It took years, literally years, up until 2022 to convince anyone from that group, “Let’s go back. You’ll be fine this time. We’ll have fun. You’ll be great. You will enjoy yourself. You will definitely have fun.” And at the height of COVID, we were wondering, “Why are we still in San Francisco? Let’s go to an open space. I know just the spot. I’ll drive us there tonight.” And they said, “Absolutely not.” I was banned from suggesting Palm Springs as a destination. So it took literally three years, and that group, I thought, “Okay, I’ve talked about this hundreds of times. Can we make it happen?” Because some specific life events are going to happen, and this is the one time it lines up. So in February 2022, I said, “Okay, October 2022. We’ll go during this week. That’s when everyone is free. We’ll do it.” I booked PTO in February, and my manager said, “It’s so strange. You’re booking time off nine months in advance.” I replied, “You don’t understand. This trip is do or die”. And then a week later, or perhaps a month later, “Hey, we’re going to Cancun during the same time.” I thought, “Oh no.” But then coming back, I felt great. We did the group trip. We did it the right way this time. Everyone who went to Cancun was saying, “We can't stand anyone. The plane was terrible. The boat was terrible. Everything was terrible.”

Lauren Oliveri: The plane is totally Type 2. I’m kind of jealous of that story. Do you know what I mean?

Tanner: I’ve heard from people on that plane who refuse to fly now. Oh, okay. Well, that’s maybe Type 3 then. Yeah.

Lauren Oliveri: We’re veering strongly into Type 3. Yeah, I would only say it’s such a funny story. I’m not going to tell it here. Bad things happened.

Tanner: Oh, yeah. I made a joke about it at work the other day. I said, “Oh, if you set up this release in a certain way, it’s similar to flying a plane. People responded, 'Too soon. Too soon.' ” I thought, “Oh, okay.”

Lauren: Oh, my God. Yeah. Also, I actually had to use the Type 2 phone. I have a lot of examples. I wouldn’t want to ever want. Last year, I did a family reunion in New Hampshire with my dad’s side family.

Tanner: Was Vito there?

Lauren: Yeah, Vito was there. I didn’t know who Vito was at the time. Also, I was wearing two chains recently. I was wearing a dark lipstick. Someone was like, “Oh, you look really nice.” I was like, “I’m just trying to be Carmela Soprano.” I was feeling her energy that night.

Tanner: I like how someone said you look kind of nice. They implied you could be nicer.

Lauren: Yes, I could be nicer. Always.

Tanner: They’re like, “You’re getting there.”

Lauren: I needed one more gold chain and you needed one more, actually, just a giant cross. I don’t have Catholicism in me to do the cross, but it’s definitely a statement piece. Oh, yeah. I mean, fuckboys wear one earring with a cross on it. I could do it.

Tanner: Yeah, they need to pray for that shit.

Lauren: Carmela is such an icon, though. Fuck.

Tanner: I like how she can bully Tony around, but also be surprised he’s such a dick, but also out dick him at times.

Lauren: Oh, she’s very manipulative. She doesn’t even understand her power, though. It’s pretty incredible. Did you see the–I mean, I don’t know if you–okay, sorry, Carmela’s crying again, but the episode where she basically bangs AJ’s guidance counselor to ensure he gets into college, and that woman didn’t even know what she was–she was doing it, subconsciously doing this. It was a queenship, honestly. Wait, what was I saying? Okay, family event in New Hampshire, no Vito, and everyone kind of had to do something or organize some event, and I’m somewhat known as, “Oh, Lauren loves to hike. Have her organize a hike.” I’m also a serial–maybe I probably was born–serial under estimator of people’s skills, and I will constantly push people to an edge that they are dying, and I’m saying, “This is very fine.” Ivan has mentioned this perhaps twice. Yeah, I’m just, “It’s an easy hike,”

Tanner: I have a friend who’s like this

Lauren Oliveri: and Ivan said, “Lauren, this is the tallest mountain in Vermont.” I responded, “It’s easy.” And then another time, he told me, “This is a scenic bike tour.” He then revealed, “Lauren, we’re on top of a volcano in Ecuador with the bucks horn with you.” I asked him, “What’s wrong with you?” So, a lot of Type 2 fun with Ivan. A lot of veering into Type 3, mostly. And yeah, the hike was a disaster. So we did two. First hike, I thought it was easy. I had to herd 16 of my family members of all ages. Everyone’s got stuff, and then they veered off course, and I didn’t notice that we were off course, and then I had to make the call, “We gotta turn back. This is no way this is right.” And then I had to end up being, anyway, to get people back on track, I actually stopped everyone and made them look at me, and I gave a speech about the types of fun. And they were really into it, and it became a theme of the weekend. We got through it. I don’t know if it was Type 2 fun, actually.

Tanner: There’s like, we’ve unlocked Type 3.

Lauren Oliveri: Yeah, I was saying, “Let’s not have, no one gets hurt. We’re not in Type 3 yet.” I’ve dealt with Type 3 mountain issues, almost, yeah, some scary thunderstorms above tree line. It’s scary, but, oh man. Anyway, yeah, Type 2 fun. Type 2 fun at work, Type 2 fun at home. It’s difficult. I don’t know how to plan for it, though. I had a couple of trips recently that went quite well, almost too well, and I’m thinking, “How can I…” I don’t know. I need to figure out the balance, because I obviously don’t want things to go badly. It is memorable, but I would like there to be a level of which...

Tanner: Yeah. It’s a tough calculation, because it’s as if I do want the same thing, since I feel I over plan for travel so much, to the point where I anticipate something going wrong. And I plan for it, and sometimes that thing does happen. And I’m thinking, “Great, I’m very prepared for this.” Yeah. Yeah, that’s actually what this whole Amtrak trip was. It was a lesson in everything has blown up, what do you want to do? And I’m saying, “I’m prepared for this,” because Amtrak can be so unreliable at times.

Lauren Oliveri: You have to be able to buffer days.

Tanner: Yeah. So this trip I did over the summer, it was going from San Francisco to Portland, then Portland to Seattle, Seattle to Glacier Park in Montana, Glacier to Chicago, Chicago to Albuquerque, Albuquerque to Santa Fe, and it was supposed to be Santa Fe to Denver, Denver through the Rockies to San Francisco. But then the last part got blown up, so it was Santa Fe to Los Angeles through the Southwest, and then Los Angeles to San Francisco. So, how the trip started was literally… So I have five buffer days built in throughout the whole trip, I can kind of pull around and whatnot.

So the train that’s coming to pick me up in San Francisco originates in LA and goes all the way to Seattle. So you basically ride the whole line and just get off at the parts. An hour into the trip, this is right when I leave work, I’m thinking, “Okay, I’m going to go out early, just pack and prepare and everything,” because it will come in the evening. And then an hour outside of LA, it collides with a water tanker, like a water tanker truck, and it derails, and I get a notification saying, “Hey, there’s been a service disruption.” I’m thinking, “Oh no, that’s not good,” and I get another notification saying, “Your train has been canceled. Would you like to rebook?” I was thinking, “Oh no, this isn’t good. I’ll just leave tomorrow then.” And then the next train comes in five days. That’s… It’s not the next one comes in five days, it’s the next booking that’s open for anything is in five days, because all the other trains are sold out for summer travel. So I book it, I was thinking, “Okay, I need to cancel Portland, I need to cancel Seattle, I need to condense my days in Glacier by two, just travel to Portland, and go Portland to Glacier.” I was thinking, “Okay, this messes everything up because I have friends that I want to see in Seattle, I have friends that I want to see in Portland.”

Yeah, so I do that and it’s “Fuck no, this sucks,” but no. Okay, we just ate into the buffer days, but there’s no room for error from this point on. And the next day I’m thinking, “You know what, let me see if I can kind of salvage this trip.” So I’m just spam refreshing Amtrak’s website to see if anyone cancels their trip and I take their seat. And then it was 4pm the next day, I managed to get a spot for that night. And the train leaves in three hours. “Okay, we’re doing it, I’m leaving tonight, not in four days, but tonight.

And then I get to Portland and I was thinking, "This kind of sucks, I want to go to Glacier Park now." So I cut short my Seattle part, added days to Glacier, so I'm in Glacier for six days instead of three. And that was kind of the disaster part, and everything else was smooth sailing. Get to Santa Fe, that was fun. So I'm already like two and a half weeks into the trip. Now I need to get from Santa Fe to Denver. Which is a very easy, maybe like five or six hour drive. So I call the rental agency at first, because I have a Tesla. "Hey, I need to update my return location to Denver Airport, not Albuquerque Airport." They say "Oh, you can't do that, you can't do a one-way rental with an EV." I was saying "Oh, well can I return the EV and get a different car?" They say "We don't allow one-way rentals.

Lauren Oliveri: They’re like, “Then why don’t you just…” Why didn’t you tell me the other thing first?

Tanner: Well, they said it, looked up and said, “Oh, we actually don’t offer one-way rentals.” I thought, “Oh, I guess I’ll return it and get a different car.”

Lauren Oliveri: You hit the first if statement, but there was a second if statement, but also a return to.

Tanner: Basically, they’re just said, “Would you like to return your car?” “Yes.” “Well, you can’t, sorry. You can’t do it.”

Lauren Oliveri: What if you just said, “No, I left it here.” I think about that.

Tanner: So I’ve done that before.

Lauren Oliveri: What are they gonna do? Charge you a shit ton of money?

Tanner: Yes. Which I… that’s an interesting story there. But, okay, so back to Hertz. I’m thinking, “Oh, well I’ll just return the car and then get a different one from someone else.” I call Enterprise. I’m asking, “Hey, I’m driving to Denver. Can I change my rentals?” They respond, “Oh, we don’t do one-way rentals.” I reply, “Okay, Hertz told me the same thing.” It turns out, no rental agency at Albuquerque Airport offers one-way rentals.

Lauren Oliveri: I think that might be an airport. It’s more like that it happened at an airport once. Anyway, alright.

Tanner: So with that, I thought, “Okay, I'm driving back to Albuquerque in the wrong direction. I'm going south instead of north. I'm not doing the road trips. I'll stick with my backup plan of taking the Greyhound from Albuquerque to Denver.” The whole point of this trip was land-based travel, slow travel, to see all the sights. I figured, “You know what? Honestly, someone else is driving. I've never ridden on a Greyhound before. It'll be an interesting experience.” It certainly was an experience, but not a fun one. It was my first and last time even considering Greyhound.

So, I returned the car and made it to the Albuquerque bus station by 9 a.m. The bus was scheduled to leave at 9:15 a.m. So I thought, “Okay, I'm ready. Let's do this.” 9:30 a.m. rolls around and they haven’t made the announcement for the bus yet. I was starting to wonder, “What’s going on?” But also, the bus station felt like a small Walmart. I thought, “You know what? Whatever. We're going to be on the bus soon. I won’t have to deal with this much longer. I'll have my own seat. Whatever. I don’t care.”

Hours go by without any updates. It’s extremely hot. It's summer, and for some reason, the AC is broken. I was thinking, “Oh, this is awful. I just want to get on this bus.” Also, the bus was supposed to get to Denver at 5 p.m. Now, it's likely to get there at 8 p.m. And then my train leaves from Denver at 8 a.m. So I'm already thinking, “As soon as I get to Denver, I have to go to sleep. Wake up early. Go to the train station.”

Then it gets to noon and they announced, “Oh, sorry. We haven’t been able to locate your bus driver yet.” An hour later, the bus driver shows up and she says, “Oh, the bus is broken.”

Lauren Oliveri: Was it? It was.

Tanner: It was actually broken. I saw they had a tow truck come and took the bus away. So I thought, “Okay. What do I do?” And they said, “You can wait for another bus to show up probably tomorrow or later tonight but that won’t work because I’ll miss my train in Denver and there’s no way to rebook that train.” It’s basically booked out for the summer. And I realized, “Wait a second. I’m at Amtrak station Albuquerque which shares the station with Greyhound. There’s another train coming from the north that I can take to get to LA. If I can get to LA, I can get to San Francisco.” So right then and there, I thought, “Let me just cancel my trip on the train from Denver. Let me book my train from Albuquerque to LA.” And I got the last seat on the Albuquerque to LA train. Canceled the Denver one. All of this in the span of three minutes. And then waited half an hour and that train showed up.

Lauren Oliveri: Oh, Amtrak saved the day somehow.

Tanner: Yeah, somehow. The fact that Amtrak saves anything, that’s a testament.

Lauren Oliveri: It’s just how frickin’ depressing and bleak that Greyhound bus was.

Tanner: Yeah.

Lauren Oliveri: Honestly, that’s how I feel. I really never want to go back to Port Authority ever again. When we lived in Boston, we would, you know, Ivan was a student and I was just starting to earn a bit more in tech, but I still thought, “We’re only going to take buses back.” And it was a nightmare every time. So Peter Pan, Bolt, I’ve taken them. I mean, it’s roughly four and a half to five hours from Boston, but oh, Amtrak’s so nice. But it’s expensive. Amtrak’s not much cheaper than flying.

Tanner: Oh yeah.

Lauren Oliveri: Or, I don’t know, how else would we get home? Have a friend drive us?

Tanner: I think what made Amtrak fun is you can get a sleeper cabin and have your own private space. And it’s just a pure sightseeing. That part’s super fun.

Lauren Oliveri: Not the most scenic from Boston to New York, but efficient, kind of.

Tanner: Yeah. I think everything Chicago and West that’s where all the scenic routes are.

Lauren Oliveri: Yep. Hey, the Northeast quarter makes some of the most money though.

Tanner: True. It subsidized with my silly summer vacation.

Lauren Oliveri: It really did. It was fun. Great, whatever, right? It was memorable. You had a great time. And you got to go to LA. You weren’t expecting to go back to LA.

Tanner: Yeah. It worked out. What kind of bummed me out was, the trip from Denver to San Francisco was the most scenic route you can do in the US. I thought, cool, I can’t wait to do it during summer. It’s gonna be so awesome. But the route I did back, I’ve done it before, but it just rained the whole time. That is its own kind of fun, but I actually wanted to see stuff this time. So, that worked out. And then being able to spontaneously be in LA and check in at one of my favorite hotels, spend the day there and then just go back to San Francisco. It worked out perfectly. That exact scenario, I had figured out. I had a backup plan that if I can’t make it to Denver, here’s what I'm going to do. I thought, cool, it's backup plan time.

Lauren Oliveri: Yeah, that was... I mean, that’s the thing. To travel, you have to be okay with things not going as planned and not let it ruin your trip. I think that depends on the company, but I like to travel with that group of people because I know that they’re quite resilient in the face of things really not going right. Yeah, I’ve done a trip with them to, my first major backpacking trip was tournament long. Which is a third, you go from Switzerland to France, Italy, all in one trip. I’m trying to think of anything that went seriously wrong there. Oh, I mean, a funny memory was, it was an interesting time in my life. I was living in Denver at the time. I had just finished a coding camp. I was literally, I only brought four bags with me to Denver when I did that boot camp and then I was moving out. So, I had, I was starting a whole phase of life, wrapping up Denver, going on this hike. I was going to be in my friend’s wedding and speak at her wedding…

Tanner: Nice.

Lauren: …at the end of the trip. I thought, awesome. But around day eight or nine, I fell and almost fell off the mountain, hitting my head on a rock. I had a cut on my head and my friends were, Oh my God, thank God you’re alive. I just thought, Oh, I have a cut on my head. I’m going to look foolish at my friend’s wedding. My first thought was to go to the M.A.C counter and ask for foundation to cover this up. I managed to cover it up. The other issue I had though was horrible socks, tan lines and I had a short dress and I forgot about that. It was fine. No one really noticed. I self-tanned my ankles and it kind of appeared OK. I have funny memories like photos of me with an ice pack on my head, walking around. It’s just really, really fun times. What else did I do? Patagonia with my old roommates last year. With my friends in Slovenia this year. Slovenia went really well. There was one kind of funny part, which is that the trip is called the Juliana Trail. It’s a new trail within the Slovenian Alps. It’s a hut to hut thing. But apparently there’s an app to represent the stages. We did one day and it was a lot of assholes and we were, this route is terrible. Then we looked at the reviews and everyone’s saying, this route is terrible. You should skip it. You could skip the route. You could take buses to different parts. It’s a 28 day trail. We only did six days. We'd condensed a couple of stages in one day. It really hurt my ankles, really hurt my feet. You should not be walking in bad shoes. It’s really good times. Stupid stuff happens. You really feel like you don’t want to be doing it during it. Like the memory of being, that’d be funny if that was where we were staying tonight. It is where we’re staying tonight. It’s 1,000 feet up. It’s 5pm. And then you’re in the moment. Why did I ever sign up to do this? Why did I pay money to do this? Why did I come here? You feel great. I want to talk about the marathon. Let’s go get the marathon.

Tanner: It’s going to be tough when you’re doing it. And then you’re saying, I did it! I have so much dopamine! It’s going to take days to dissipate. I know.

Lauren: Oh, I'm also totally, in the words of Bill, I'm sending it after my marathon. I'm going to Nepal for two and a half weeks just two days after I run the marathon. Hopefully, I don't shred my legs up doing it.